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< 'Ellipse' Discussion ~ Can't get into ellipse

funkjedi

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 11:42 am

Joined: 29 May 2007 Posts: 4 Location: Glasgow

I'm a big Immi fan, but I just can't get into the new album. Maybe it needs a few more plays.

I just think she should stop trying to be so clever (mic check and Earth spring to mind) and concentrate on song structure - where are the choruses???. First Train Home, Tidal, Swoon, Aha and Canvas aside the rest just washes over me. I find it all a bit self-indulgent.

Just my opinion. Maybe it'll change after a few more listens.

Chacron

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 2:34 pm

Joined: 23 Feb 2008 Posts: 27

Its expression... why should she have to "concentrate" on what you specify? She's the one who's sat in that room for two years making the record that SHE wanted to make. If its not your thing, fair enough, but that doesnt make it any "better" or "worse" than anything else she's done.

hybride

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 3:37 pm

Joined: 16 Nov 2008 Posts: 96 Location: Montréal, QC

I don't necessarely understand why a song SHOULD have a chorus... but that's just my opinion...

imi339

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 7:17 pm

Joined: 05 Mar 2008 Posts: 112

I don't think that a song "need" a chorus. I mean it's art and you don't have to stick the "rules".

funkjedi

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 8:13 pm

Joined: 29 May 2007 Posts: 4 Location: Glasgow

These songs do have choruses though. Just not ones that'll get any airplay. A couple of radio-friendly songs would have aided her cause. I just don't think the album makes a big impact.

Maybe I should accept it for what it is

JonWes

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 10:37 pm

Joined: 06 Nov 2005 Posts: 310 Location: Tolono, IL

I think the album has a HUGE impact. It's just not as poppy. I think this illustrates why it'll be good if she just releases a song at a time and then collects them into an album. That way she can do funky experimental stuff that most of us seem to enjoy here and then she can do poppier stuff too. Maybe mostly pop stuff gets on the eventual physical release.

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kindalbert

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 9:19 am

Joined: 30 Jan 2008 Posts: 88 Location: austin, texas

I agree the album is a bit self indulgent, but that's the entire point. she's got the past two/three albums to suffer as a poor artist and write hits and singles, and now she has the lux of writing an album exactly as she wants. we're in the gravy!

might I add--wait it out, earth, and bad body double certainly have choruses. teeheet!

windkirby

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 12:29 pm

Joined: 28 Jan 2009 Posts: 31

Know what you mean - like Immi's putting her energy into something stylish instead of something anyone could have fun listening to, right?
From a writer's perspective, I think any type of art is self-indulgent in some way. In fact, there are very few artists I can think of off the top of my head that strike me as not self-indulgent, as a lot of music out there just doesn't have much effort put into it. Not that Immi couldn't have mixed catchier tunes with the poignant lyrics, but I find even S4Y is a bit self-indulgent in its resistance to having more interesting noises, and even its pop-ishness. Just an example. I think the word you're looking for is "exclusive." It's difficult to rock out to the songs.
I don't necessarily agree with the non-catchy choices she's made, but from a listener's perspective, the best I can advise is to just take the album as it is. I find that aside from Tidal, most of the songs are pretty enjoyable, if not the hookiest things out there. I think Immi's songs are the "modern art" of music - it's quite different and not all of it is going to be too aesthetically pleasing.

I do wish that people would stop saying "How ignorant of you - this is the album she wanted." We are not discussing whether or not Immi likes the album - we are discussing if we do, and the TC is certainly entitled to his opinion. Just because he doesn't feel the same way some of you do doesn't mean he's not allowed to post.

Last edited by windkirby on Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:17 pm; edited 1 time in total

AvantGuy

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 3:15 pm

Joined: 12 Feb 2009 Posts: 117 Location: New York

I truly don't understand notions of "self-indulgence." I think Imogen wrote exactly the album she wanted to write in IMeg and S4Y. She did it again in Ellipse. If self-indulgence means something that listeners don't enjoy, it's too bad for them I'd say. Of course the albums differ from one another. She's an artist, not a singing boob manipulated by producers and labels. Artists evolve over time.

underdissolution

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 6:49 pm

Joined: 24 Feb 2008 Posts: 374 Location: Cambridge UK

windkirby wrote:

I do wish that people would stop saying "How ignorant of you - this is the album she wanted." We are not discussing whether or not Immi likes the album - we are discussing if we do, and the TC is certainly entitled to his opinion. Just because he doesn't feel the same way some of you do doesn't mean he's not allowed to post.

So true! I'm glad Immi has done what she wanted to do and that she's happy with it, but that doesn't mean we all have to be as in love with it as she is. Some people are going to love it, others it may take a bit more time - that doesn't make either of them ignorant.

This album sounds WAY more poppy than S4Y IMO. FTH and WIO are the poppiest songs she's ever done. I think most of the songs had the potential to be amazing, but I really dislike most of the production. Certain synths just annoy me. For me though, it's mainly the lyrics that ruin it. Just things like "soup of darkness as a a crocodile" and "top dog of dreams" etc.. So I'm struggling to get into it. I'm also coming to terms with the fact that I'm a bit disappointed. I've anticipated this album for so long, and I was kind of underwhelmed. I can still rock out to Polyfilla etc.. but it isn't how I thought I would be.

I don't want to get to negative. If I think of it relative to other artists' albums - it's still a good album. I really hope it will grow on me and be a great album.

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windkirby

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:23 pm

Joined: 28 Jan 2009 Posts: 31

underdissolution wrote:

This album sounds WAY more poppy than S4Y IMO. FTH and WIO are the poppiest songs she's ever done.

Whoa, seriously? Maybe in Wait it Out, Half-Life, and Tidal the lyrics are poppy, but I think First Train Home is wonderful. I mean, yes, it's something everyone can relate to, but it's hardly what I think of when I hear "pop." To me, Wait it Out and First Train Home still have enough quirkiness to hold them out of my mind's pop category. And they're definitely not as poppy as SG&G IMO!
Also, I think the lyrics are wonderful. I like sometimes when the song is more of a poem than a title, where you're unlocking a mystery of what it's about. It's the un-melodic arrangement that turns me off a bit though. Still, I do like the album.

CarnivalBox

Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 9:20 pm

Guest

Well, isn't Immis' thing to kind of make songs like poetry, and then just add some catchy sounds to it.
Her songs are just simple songs, but extremely deep.

JonWes

Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 10:41 pm

Joined: 06 Nov 2005 Posts: 310 Location: Tolono, IL

Frankly I think it's always more interesting when an artist does what they want to rather than trying to give the fans what they want. Because the latter can be hard to pin down and vary fan by fan. I think it's fine if someone isn't into Ellipse, though. Good music, like good art, is not appreciated by everyone. Smile

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Komet_16

Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 7:18 am

Joined: 28 Mar 2009 Posts: 8

I didn"t get into Ellipse, either.
I expected more from her like diving into different waters like she did and explore a new territory. I can't deny I like songs from Ellipse but it's kinda stuck between SFY and Frou Frou's Details.
A step away from pretty clean synth sounds and get to the dirtier side would have been something I like. The guitars did that on SFY, building a counterpart to her soft breathy voice. This is somehow missing on Ellipse.

James

Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 4:05 pm

Admin Joined: 21 Jul 2004 Posts: 2183 Location: Birmingham, England

funkjedi wrote:

These songs do have choruses though. Just not ones that'll get any airplay. A couple of radio-friendly songs would have aided her cause.

The last album had virtually no radio airplay and has now sold over 500,000 copies. Ellipse charted at #5 on the US album chart - who needs radio!?

I don't think Immi's 'cause' is to get airplay and sell records. It's to create art/music that moves her, and hopefully moves other people along the way. And judging by the vast majority of feedback on Ellipse, along with the previous sales of S4Y I think she's doing just fine?

If this album doesn't do that for you, that's fair enough...she can't please everyone, all of the time (non of us can!)....but music is subjective, there are not 'rights' or wrongs'....it's just what it is - and you can like it or not.

If you feel a little disappointed, that's ok - but I'd urge you to see her live as these songs maybe well have a very different life when she performs them live!

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JonWes

Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 9:53 pm

Joined: 06 Nov 2005 Posts: 310 Location: Tolono, IL

The funny thing about the criticism is either that it's too much like SFY or not enough like it. Some think it's too experimental and some think it's not experimental enough. All I have to say is, I think it's best for Imogen to not really listen too much to fans feedback and do her own thing. Smile

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AASPBY

Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 11:09 pm

Guest

Why is 'pop' so taboo?

underdissolution

Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 11:14 pm

Joined: 24 Feb 2008 Posts: 374 Location: Cambridge UK

AASPBY wrote:

Why is 'pop' so taboo?

I don't know. When I said it was more poppy than S4Y, that was an observation not a criticism. Doesn't pop basically just mean popular? And she did reach no.5 in the US, so I'd say she was pretty damn popular.

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AvantGuy

Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 5:32 am

Joined: 12 Feb 2009 Posts: 117 Location: New York

underdissolution wrote:

AASPBY wrote:

Why is 'pop' so taboo?

I think "pop" has two meanings. The generic meaning and the oldest is "pop" merely as the shortened form of "popular music." The second and more recent use of "pop" refers to a style. The adjective "poppy" would be interpreted by most readers to carry the second meaning, the stylistic inference. This came about in the mid-1950's as a less edgy musical alternative to rock-and-roll.

The Wikipedia article lists 12 sub-genres of pop: Baroque pop, Bubblegum pop, Dance-pop, Electropop, Mashup, Operatic pop, Power pop, Sophisti-pop, Space age pop, Sunshine pop, Synthpop, and Teen pop. I hate categories Evil or Very Mad

To members of this list who adore Imogen's music (don't we all), the notion of placing her into any single category borders on heresy. Given her uniqueness, that is totally understandable!

Amirynth

Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 9:15 am

Guest

James wrote:

If you feel a little disappointed, that's ok - but I'd urge you to see her live as these songs maybe well have a very different life when she performs them live!

Oddly enough I have to agree with this as I -adore- her live rendition of 'Wait it out' and was disappointed with the CD version. Not to say it wasn't good, and it is growing on me, but there was just something about the simplicity of just her and the piano that gave it that inner strength. The multi-voice version on the CD kinda looses that same feeling. (I'm talking about the Pop-tech performance)

However, that being said, I have fallen for 1-2 when before the snippits I had heard had not interested me at all so it just goes to show that it depends on the variation *smiles* I mean it took me almost two years for me to like listening to 'Hide and Seek' and now, while it's not one of my favorites, I do like it much more than I used to *nods*

edit: and I just realized I quoted James *laughs*

Relight

Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 10:53 pm

Guest

Quote:

I just can't get into the new album.
I find it all a bit self-indulgent.
...the rest just washes over me.

So you just can't get in the album... it's ALL a bit self-indulgent...

Yet you name almost half the album with tracks you like?

Quote:

First Train Home, Tidal, Swoon, Aha and Canvas aside

Heck, that's better odds than many artists and CDs get in the ratio of songs on an album to songs that are good.

Personally, I loved every track the moment I listened to it streaming, which was not the case with any of her previous albums. This really says something to me, since I enjoy a large variety of genres but am very discerning in what I consider to be "good" music.

I think she's grown a lot as an artist, and I feel that Ellipse is her best work. (I also think very highly of the tracks in the era between SFY and Ellipse - Not Now But Soon, Glittering Cloud and Speeding Cars.)

I watched all of her video blogs... and can't wait for the DVD. I think she put so much effort and so much of her unique spirit into this album... it can hardly be considered "pop" in any generic sense of the term, whether that's "popular" or a certain style.

(Those Wikipedia sub-genres of pop are hilarious! Who comes up with that stuff?!)

(Sadly, still waiting to resolve an issue with my "Favorite" edition of the album before I can actually listen to it all at full CD quality, listen to the instrumentals, and see the booklet.)

frooosh

Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 3:01 pm

Joined: 04 Oct 2009 Posts: 34 Location: Upside down

windkirby wrote:

Know what you mean - like Immi's putting her energy into something stylish instead of something anyone could have fun listening to, right?

Maybe it just depends on your tastes, but I don't find this album unenjoyable to listen to at all. I can't even sing in tune, myself, but the tracks on this album just... go, for me. They just play right, you know? They felt like familiar friends from the first time I heard them - and I don't mean that in a bad way. It's like a warm bath, you can just completely immerse yourself in this beautiful, multi-layered world.

If anything, I felt this album was quite poppy and was worried I'd end up sharing Immi with everyone =P Now how's that for self indulgence?

AvantGuy

Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 8:06 pm

Joined: 12 Feb 2009 Posts: 117 Location: New York

I like the way you put it:

frooosh wrote:

... They felt like familiar friends from the first time I heard them ... It's like a warm bath, you can just completely immerse yourself in this beautiful, multi-layered world.

artistboy907

Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 9:09 pm

Guest

AvantGuy wrote:

I like the way you put it:

frooosh wrote:

... They felt like familiar friends from the first time I heard them ... It's like a warm bath, you can just completely immerse yourself in this beautiful, multi-layered world.

i love that too

JonWes

Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 4:27 am

Joined: 06 Nov 2005 Posts: 310 Location: Tolono, IL

It's funny... I can't STOP listening to Ellipse! I have gotten a few other CD's since then... but I keep coming back to it. The only album that has really pulled me away for any length of time is Florence+The Machine's album.

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adamtce

Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 5:13 pm

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JonWes wrote:

The only album that has really pulled me away for any length of time is Florence+The Machine's album.

me too

Swizzlestick

Posted: Sat May 29, 2010 1:22 am

Joined: 24 Jan 2010 Posts: 4 Location: Massachusetts, USA

I was hesitant when I first listened to the album because it was just SO different but the more that I listened to it the more I loved it!! It didn't take very long to grow on me. I can understand why it might not appeal to some though. Canvas was the song that really pulled me in. It just sounds so gorgeous!!

I always say to people that I expect my favorite artists to change their style and grow over time. If I buy an album and it sounds just like the previous ones I will lose interest in that artist very quickly.

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